Lilith’s Brood
Writer: Octavia E. Butler
Genre: Science Fiction
Pages: 746
Original Review: Published April, 26, 2008
The first and only time I read Octavia Butler’s Lilith’s Brood was for my graduate school program. To provide a little context, my graduate degree is in Writing Popular Fiction, and to graduate, you had write a novel of popular fiction. My genre of choice was science fiction, and that means that for each term, my required reading had to relate to my thesis novel in some way. My mentor and I chose Butler because I’d already read and loved her work for the way she explores race and sexuality in her fiction, and since I happened to have Lilith’s Brood, I figured that would be as good a pick as any. In my original review, I end up referring a bit to my thesis project/novel, and that’s why: any reviews I did for my required reading was also forwarded to my mentor, and part of what I was supposed to do was talk about what the book I’d read taught me.
Don’t worry: it’s still a critical review (it actually breaks down Lilith’s Brood into its three separate parts). I just wanted to give you some context!
Unfortunately, I was not able to re-read Lilith’s Brood for the Women of SF book club. I wish I could have, especially after re-reading my own review and re-familiarizing myself with the story and how it played out. I’m still a great admirer of Butler’s work, and she’s an author I can come back to again and again and get something new out of her words, and that is a great thing.
For discussion, here’s some things to consider. Mind you, these questions don’t have to be answered in the comments — they’re just here to get the juices flowing if you’re having trouble articulating your thoughts. But you’re welcome to answer them as well, whatever floats your fancy.
1) One of the most fascinating aspects of this book, to me, was to see how a third sex might function in society. A friend of mine once commented that after reading Lilith’s Brood, she had a hard time reconciling the fact that humanity DIDN’T have a third sex (she thought it should). Does Butler make a compelling argument for a third sex, or do you take this more as a thought experiment: something interesting to read about in fiction, but you’re not convinced it would ever work in real life?
2) How could or should homosexual relationships been addressed in this book? From what I’ve heard, Butler herself was homosexual, so it’s an interesting question to raise. Should we look at this as a book about SEX (in which case, why no homosexuality?) or BREEDING (which means the lack of homosexuality makes perfect sense, or does it?)
3) Nowadays, it’s not a guaranteed thing that a married couple WANTS children. The humans in LILITH’S BROOD want desperately to reproduce. Their motivation to is stay human and have children. Do you think that this is a reflection of the society they found themselves in, the prospect of facing the elimination of the human race as we know it? Do you think there will always be humans who WON’T want children, even if it means damning the human race to extinction (I say yes). Should Butler have explored this, or would that have detracted from the main conflict of the novel?
4) Is this the first Octavia E. Butler book you’ve read? If so, how does it compare to her other work? Would you read anything else in the future?
5) How did the writing style work for you?
These questions are just to get the juices flowing. Please feel free to say anything and everything that comes to mind, but even if you hated the book, talk about what didn’t work for you and why. 
Also, if you wrote a review, please share it with all of us!
Don’t forget July’s selection: Cordelia’s Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold
I really enjoyed reading this. I read the three separate books, cheap copies from Amazon, which have quite off-putting covers. I bought just the first one and wondered if I would like it. I always think this with Octavia Butler and put off starting, but as soon as I start reading I am hooked. I only have a few more of her books left to read now, so I’m glad I have been spreading them out. I just can’t get over how addictive and seductive her writing is.
A lot of the explored themes mean a lot to me: love, relationships, jealousy, connections. I am poly and when I mentioned to my partners that this book contains multi-person relationships they were very interested. It’s not that common a theme to explore in such depth (I also like how it was done in Fledgling). One of the things I found heartbreaking in this series was the idea that Lilith and Tino couldn’t touch each other after they had mated with the ooloi. I felt a lot of betrayal on their behalf and it was incredibly powerful. Another thing that really got to me was the idea of the plundered and abandoned Earth – the idea that the future for humanity is to somehow get over the tendency for violence and to emigrate to the stars is a repeating theme in Butler’s work which is already familiar to me from reading Sylvia Engdahl.
Laura, I think you’ve hit on something with the “lack of touch” mention. I found the distance between Tino and Lilith heartbreaking, too.
If I was in a similar situation, I think “betrayal” would be a light term. Consider that you couldn’t interact physically with your human mate, and yet you know logically there’s a chemical response to your ooloi that is keeping you by their side. Wouldn’t you begin to wonder how much of your love/emotional response to that ooloi is valid and how much is based on pheromones? How can you trust that this species isn’t coercing you into something you wouldn’t normally agree with?
Oy. Creeps me out. O_o
Darn it, didn’t close the i tag… :/
Closed it for you!
Thanks!
It’s a great theme to explore, one that really stood out to me when I read it, as my own work at the time dealt with similar issues.
I actually have a fondness for the original covers/artwork. I do like my omnibus though, because it matches the other Butler covers on my shelf.
But like you, I’ve been spreading them out, because there’s so few to begin with, and so few left at this point. 
One of the things I found heartbreaking in this series was the idea that Lilith and Tino couldn’t touch each other after they had mated with the ooloi. I felt a lot of betrayal on their behalf and it was incredibly powerful
That is powerful. I found it equally powerful that humans hungered to be near their ooloi too, to be touched, to be in physical proximity. It’s a fascinating topic to explore!
I’m glad you enjoyed this, and I’m glad you participated, especially since the book club was in transition this last month!
First thing I want to say is thanks to you for keeping this book club going! This club has introduced some interesting books and I am glad it will continue
In regards to Lilith’s Brood, I just finished it last week and posted my review here : http://killie-booktalk.blogspot.com/2011/06/liliths-brood-octavia-e-butler.html
In regards to the questions you have asked;
1) To be honest, I think Butler’s description and creation of the third gender is well done and is put across in a decent manner. As I said in my review though, the third gender came across to me as being fundamentally male and therefore I didn’t really see what it would have added to humanity. It has some superb abilities in this book but I would imagine some of this could be done with technology and there would have been no reason why one of the two “normal” genders could not have had these abilities.
2) I think the book was more about breeding than sex itself. The oakali seemed more interested in children produced and the genetic mix than sex itself in my opinion. As for homosexuality, considering the relationships involved two males, two females and one ooli I would say that there is some sort of homosexuality or at least bi-sexualism in there. You could argue that the two male genders were from different races but I think the point was being made that two men or two women being in a relationship as well was not a “bad” thing.
3) I think the desire to have children to the extent shown in the book was due to the fact that humanity was ending and people wanted society as they knew it to at least survive. However, I do agree with you in that I think there would have been some people who did not want children, after all humanity is selfish on the whole and plenty of people would not want to be commited to children in any way. As for Butler exploring it, I think it would have detracted from the main conflict in the novel. It may have been nice to a least see though in the odd individuals etc.
4) It is the first Octavia E. Butler book I have read. I am still undecided about reading anymore of her work but have not ruled it out, I just need to read some synopsis and decide if any appeal
5) The writing style was prefectly acceptable, I did find some of the repeated descriptions and information a bit annoying but I think this is due to the fact the books were released in different years and therefore the odd “refresher” would have been useful.
You’re very welcome! I love this theme too much to let it die, so I was happy to keep it going for TJ!
Thanks for your review, I’ll definitely check it out.
Also, thanks for your thoughtful answers to the questions, especially #2: I hadn’t looked at the relationships from that point of view before!
As for her other work, I do hope you seek more out.
Butler always has interesting viewpoints on race and sexuality in her books, and if those topics interest you, there’s always going to be food for thought in her fiction!
That’s interesting, as I felt as though the third sex was female – I do have a tendency to ‘default’ to assuming a person of unknown gender is female, though.
I really think how a reader views the third sex varies on a lot of differing factors, maybe mostly based on the gender of the reader!
Shara! Thanks for the great questions! Exactly what I needed to get my brain buzzing! ^^
1. A third sex. I think Butler’s thought it through quite well, and it was interesting, but the physicality of relationships seems down-scaled (maybe this just screams how much I enjoy bedroom gymnastics, but I found the whole “lie stationary” very distancing…).
Also, I’m more concerned with the technicalities of finding someone, let alone another four people to share a union. There was a lot of chemical pheromones involved in the novel, and I appreciate that, because I think that if someone was to strike out and look for compatible mates based on personality/goals/compatibility–holy crappit, that’s a tangle I’m glad I don’t have to face.
2. Funny that it’s claimed that Butler was a homosexual, because the lack of homosexual presence in this book was noticeable to me. Actually, I was hoping that that was the reason for Jodahs’ “difference” despite his promiscuity between the two human genders. I was waiting for his metamorphosis to reveal he was inclined one way or the other, but not both (especially since he kept shifting his appearance to reflect what others preferred). Once he’d undergone metamorphosis, though, I stopped thinking of homosexuality in the text and chalked it up to Bulter not having thought it through.
Now that I am thinking about it, though, couldn’t two same-sex humans mate with an ooloi on principle? Really, they would have two sets of chromosomes, and the ooloi could alter whatever genes necessary to create an ideal match (I’m no geneticist, but I’ll wager there’s more than simply the XY difference brought to the table from each gender, but it’s moot: the ooloi have been established as genetic modifiers). This makes me wonder why Butler didn’t explore it more herself… is there another novel (or set of) that takes place in the same universe?
3. I think Butler is addressing the whole base evolutionary concept that everyone’s “purpose” is to perpetuate the species. And since the resisters are stymied on this extremely base level, no bloody wonder they are bitter.
While I appreciate how the Oankali learn from Akin/the humans that it’s necessary to allow a pure colony of humans to exist on Mars, I find it odd that they “clarify the impurities” from those humans before sending them to be fertile on their own… isn’t part of being human having the genetic potential for flaws? It doesn’t sit comfortably with me that the Oankali “correct” these issues and consider the human DNA pure… I get that the overwhelming number of genetic disorders applied against the small breeding group would encourage the human race to die off, but… isn’t that what becoming extinct is all about? In my mind it’s less “perpetuating the species” and more “allowing life to take it’s course.”
In this case, if the humans created a war to kill themselves off, shouldn’t they be allowed to do so? Shouldn’t the few remaining be allowed to flounder? The Oankali interference seems like the hand of god — and I’ll concede that not everything in life is planned/moral/proper/what have you, I think it’s safe to say humanity would have disappeared entirely had the Oankali not stepped in. Should they have refrained (despite their species’ need to help/heal/learn)?
Re: People not wanting children. I noticed a lack of them, too, but I wonder how much of that was a case of resisters having been “cleansed” of disease, etc, and left to live past their regular life expectancies and having those lives drag on. I think the desperation came from the monotony and lack of progression of a life where no one seems to age. There are no children. There is no change — aside from say, weather and the seasons — and I would imagine this would lend focus to what is missing (families and children).
And when it is discovered in Imago that resisters have become fertile, I had a flashback of Jurassic Park (the movie), when Dr Malcom (Goldblum’s character) is speaking of how Mother Nature will “find a way.” And that only highlighted the Oankali influencing touch, and I was thinking again how humanity should have been left to die in its own fire…
4. Yes, this is the first Butler book I’ve read. And yes, Shara, I’d consider giving another one a try, but nothing that’s a 750 page commitment.
5. I wonder at Butler’s choice of 3rd person POV for Lilith. I would have preferred a 1st person POV, I think it would have been easier to begin the trilogy with 1st PPOV, especially with the learning curve of world building and all the new-to-the-reader “he/she/it” going on. Other than that, I had a hard time seeing these creatures. Despite the description given (and I loved how the sensory tentacles showed emotional response), I had difficulty visualizing the Oankali.
And I echo David’s thanks for keeping this show on the road, Shara!
My review is here. Cheers!
Thank you for such a thoughtful comment! I saw your review last night, so it’s cool to hear your discussion on this side of things!
Now that I am thinking about it, though, couldn’t two same-sex humans mate with an ooloi on principle? Really, they would have two sets of chromosomes, and the ooloi could alter whatever genes necessary to create an ideal match (I’m no geneticist, but I’ll wager there’s more than simply the XY difference brought to the table from each gender, but it’s moot: the ooloi have been established as genetic modifiers). This makes me wonder why Butler didn’t explore it more herself… is there another novel (or set of) that takes place in the same universe?
Since it HAS been a while since I read this, who gives birth to the child? The female or the ooloi? I ask only because at first, I thought your same-sex pairing would even work for breeding, but wouldn’t there NEED to be an egg? And if the ooloi doesn’t give birth and it’s the female, what then? If it is the ooloi who gives birth though (I think it is, but it’s been a while and I really can’t remember), then maybe the egg’s a non-issue. I wouldn’t go so far as to assume Butler didn’t think it through though… it may be a case where she wanted to focus on a particular thing, and anything else may have distracted from what she was getting at. Maybe. Who knows? It’s unfortunate she’s passed away, because I would love to pick her brain with questions.
However, if you’re looking for Butler taking on same-sex relationships, you should check out FLEDGLING. But fair warning: the beginning will likely creep you out. Keep reading, and you should be fine, but yeah.
But no, this is it for this particular universe. Butler passed away in 2006, and there’s been no word of hidden manuscripts. And the stuff she was working on when she passed related to other series she’d already started.
In my mind it’s less “perpetuating the species” and more “allowing life to take it’s course.”
I’m just throwing this out there for giggles, but how is what the Oankali do to save and change humanity (in order to keep them from extinction) any different than what we do with modern medicine? I’m thinking in regards to the fact that people live FAR longer lives than ever before, and it’s all thanks to modern medicine. Not that I’m advocating against the medical field or saying one should never go to a doctor, but I do believe that humanity doesn’t follow the whole “survival of the fittest” rule of evolution, and in some ways, Butler’s taking it to the next level, with an alien race deciding what’s best for the race instead of us making those decisions for ourselves. It’s an interesting thought with no right answers, mind you, but worth considering.
Regarding Butler’s other work, this and SEED TO HARVEST are omnibuses, and if you’re willing to read more, then perhaps KINDRED or FLEDGLING may work better for you, as both are stand-alones and definitely a shorter length. However, if you wanted to read installments of SEED TO HARVEST on their own, see if you can’t round up a copy of WILD SEED from somewhere, as that’s the first book/part in SEED TO HARVEST. It’s ridiculously short!
And you’re welcome! As I told David, I love this theme too much to let it die, so I’m happy to keep it going for you guys!
Re: review. Thanks, Shara–and I saw your comment, too, thanks! I was pushing to get my anti-spoilery thoughts in order to publish it before this discussion took place. My own thoughts, all that jazz.
Since it HAS been a while since I read this, who gives birth to the child? The female or the ooloi?
Yes, a female does, but there’s much mention of human-Oankali mixing, and a female Oankali could birth a child that is a construct of genes mixing two male humans with other Oankali mates (or so my thinking goes–I could be entirely wrong, it’s Bulter’s universe, not mine). Point being: the mixy-matchy of genes could go either way, if it’s done by ooloi… I wonder if the sperm-egg combination is even necessary on the level at which the ooloi can process and manipulate matter… hmm… her world building seems thorough, I’d think she’d have the possibility of it in her notes if not in the narrative…
It’s unfortunate she’s passed away, because I would love to pick her brain with questions. YES!
Re: Fledgling. Just added it to the To Read list. Thanks! It’s handy to have a go-to title for the next time I decide to pick up Butler. And yeah, I think I’ll be avoiding any other omnibuses (for now)…
I’m just throwing this out there for giggles, but how is what the Oankali do to save and change humanity (in order to keep them from extinction) any different than what we do with modern medicine?
Hm. Interesting thought. I think, though, that until modern medicine actively begins altering sperm/egg genes (and I know identifying genetic markers is currently experimental) before fertilization, and thereby avoiding certain diseases/unwanted attributes, I don’t think it’s the same thing. Or perhaps it is–medicine is constantly on the path to curing diseases. Maybe it’s not about creating life without a disease so much as it’s simply being able to cure the disease at onset.
What gets me about the Oankali, though, is that they deliberately stepped in and avoided the extinction of the human species with the intent to alter that species… seems a little ass-backwards, and of course I can see why the resisters got upset. I was relieved when Akin managed to sway the Oankali to allow that human colony on Mars.
But at the same time, I’m hoping that those humans burn themselves out–is that twisted? I feel the Oankali came to the rescue and avoided the natural fate of humans. It wasn’t so much curing disease and prolonging life as it was knocking all survivors out and temporarily removing them from the ravages of war-torn Earth, allowing them to continue to survive when they would probably have perished…
Hm. I guess I’m a “you make your bed, you can lie in it” kinda girl… (I think that’s why I like these discussions–you learn about books, but you also learn about yourself. ^^)
Heh, isn’t that the truth? Butler is fantastic for really making readers look at various issues. As I said to Rocalisa, she has an excellent way of mixing fascinating and disturbing!
Have you ever read Paolo Bacigalupi? His short story “Pop Squad” (first thing of his I ever read) is absolutely MIND-blowing, and it sounds like he’s an author who’d be up your alley, especially if you want humanity to make the beds they lie in.
(You can find that short story, btw, in his collection PUMP SIX AND OTHER STORIES).
I apparently have read this before, about 20 years ago, though I did not realize it when I picked this up. :/ The omnibus edition I bought back then was called Xenogenesis instead of Lilith’s Brood. I may have to donate my extra copy of the book to the local library.
For my reading 20 years ago, I for some reason read the last book first, which is sort of a weird way to experience this story. This time, I read everything in the proper order and liked it much, much better.
I was particularly impressed with how Butler characterized people Lilith did not like. I’m thinking of the first human she met, who tried to rape her. Even before the attempted rape, I did not like him. I was trying to figure out why. At that point he had not said or done anything particularly offensive, but he came across as a creep. I was really impressed with how she did that. She did it with Nikanj’s oolai parent as well, whose name I am not remembering. Lilith did not like him and I did not like him either.
What do I think about the three genders? I think Butler makes it work really well, though I’m a little squicked by the level of coercion required to get the original humans to join with oolai partners. I think though that I am supposed to be at least a bit uncomfortable.
As a tangent, have you ever read Melissa Scott’s Shadow Man? It has a really interesting take on multiple genders. The basic premise is that FTL spaceflight mutates humans so there are 5 genders, female, fem, herm, mem, and male, I believe. Galactic civilization is in general doing well with accepting the presence of all 5 genders. However, the book takes place on a planet that had been cut off from the wider galaxy, but has recently regained contact. On this planet, custom demands everyone choose to be either male or female, despite actual gender. The main character of the book is a herm named Warreven, who has grown up labeled as male. The action of the book forces the planet and Warreven into an eventual crisis over the issue of gender. It seems like a book that is really up your alley and I highly recommend it. It won the Lambda Literary award in 1995.
What other Butler books I have read? I read Fledgling for the Alphabet Soup book club. I have Parable of the Sower on my bookshelf and know I have read it, but I do not retain any memory of it.
I haven’t read SHADOW MAN, but I’ve heard of it and I even have an unread copy sitting on my shelf. Waiting, waiting, waiting… it sounds fascinating, and I look forward to giving it a go!
I can’t think of anything wise to say at the moment, but I really enoyed the book. This was my second Butler (the first was Fledgling) and again I found it fascinating and somewhat disturbing (which I think indicates what a thoughtful writer she was). I hope to come back and comment with some more detail later, but I didn’t want it to look like no-one else had read the book.
Thanks so much for commenting! Butler definitely knows how to mix fascinating and disturbing, doesn’t she? Of the two Butler’s you’ve read, which is your favorite?
My gut response to the question is Fledgling. But I did like these too. There’s probably not much in it.
I think she raises the awkward questions, which is why she can be disturbing in such different ways in the two stories.
It’s easy to get used the to Star Trek kind of thing, where aliens are really only people with latex on their faces, so we don’t have to seriously consider what contact with truly different species would mean. Butler developed her “other” in great detail and then gave very serious thought to how we might react and interact with that other.
The “aliens are basically just like us” stories can be a lot of fun, but it’s the stories like Butler’s that really force us to think.
As others have said up thread, I was glad Akin developed the Mars option. I can totally understand humans not wanting to give up what we see as making us human. But at the same time, I did believe the Oankali’s insistence that the humans would just destroy themselves again. But while the colony might have been ultimately futile, it still needed to happen.
I want to come back later with a comment on the issue of hierarchy as a conflict to intelligence, but it’s too early on my Saturday morning to be coherent about it yet.
Butler really does know how to force us to think. You ought to give Kindred a shot: it’s short, stand-alone, and relies very little on supernatural and paranormal elements, but it’s still a chilling tale!
Thank you so much for carrying this on, Shara.
I loved Butler’s Kindred so much that she’s at the very top of my to-read list, but I still haven’t quite gotten around to Lilith’s Brood. (I haven’t picked up any books since I finished my research, to be honest.) But I think I’m going to try to read through it by the the 5th (I have a long shift at work that will be perfect for reading on the 4th), then I’ll have to come back and see if I don’t have some thoughts to bounce off you.
You’re very welcome. There’s no way I could let this book club slide. I love the topic too much!
I know earlier this year you were trying to read Fledgling with us. Did you ever get around to finishing that?
And yes, I’d love to have you drop in with your thoughts on LILITH! I miss having book discussions with you!
I really didn’t get to reading anything at all these past months, unfortunately. Even the rare moments I had the time to, I just didn’t have the will. Reading all that information theory really killed my willpower!
I don’t blame you. There’s also something to be said about when hobbies turn into obligations, the joy gets sucked out regardless.
I’m actually most of the way finished with Fledgling now (I decided to pick it up rather than Lilith’s Brood because it looked like the faster read) and am loving it. Everything Butler touches is gold and not in the creepy Midas-eventually-this-will-turn-badly sort of way.
Oh good! That book generated a lot of great discussion for Alphabet Soup back in Feb! Feel free to join in and resurrect it!
Thanks Shara for keeping the book club going. I look forward to getting to you a bit better as we go along.
To jog my brain, I’m just going to post my immediate review from Goodreads when I finished.
“Once again I wish there was a way to give half stars. I really enjoyed the compilation of the three novels with the common world tying them together. I found the first one harder to get into than the other two because of the slow progression with Lilith but it made sense within the story. I am still uncertain if I would’ve done what she did but she’s a very sympathetic character considering her circumstances. I also liked how the other two books continued to push boundaries. Adulthood Rites is about her first construct male child, Akin, and Imago is about her first construct ooloi child, Jodahs. Similar to another reviewer, I found Akin quite annoying at times because I really couldn’t understand why he didn’t try harder to leave. But his lack of true bonding with his sibling allowed him to see the human’s plight more thoroughly so he became someone highly useful despite it. I did feel more sympathy for Jodahs though and that may be due more to Butler’s accustoming you to the mindset of these half-alien children than anything else.”
After reading some other viewpoints on Goodreads, I’m starting to see the Oankali as less beneficent as I did while reading the book. Yes, they want humanity to survive, but they also hold them captive and force them to reproduce with their species. If they truly cared about natural survival, they might make some genetic corrections, fix the planet, share some knowledge and leave but, as Butler portrays it, the Human Contradiction is too compelling for the Oankali. So, they fall in love with us as a species and essentially hold us hostage. Yes, Akin eventually gets them to concede to give the resisters a Mars colony and restore their fertility but to me it seems like they’re still condemning them to death. Why can’t they have Earth? Several characters allude to the Oankali destroying Earth when they leave the galaxy but I never understood why. To feed their ships? If so, why couldn’t the other planets suffice? Did they need carbon?
One thing I remember about this book is that the Oankali have been doing this for ages: meeting other alien races and adding that particular DNA to their genetic code. They leave a colony at the home base and then move on, right? So the Oankali are always seeking new DNA, which I think is their primary objective.
But I definitely how it can look less than beneficial. It’s a fascinating book full of hard questions.
Definitely and I think it brings up issues of interactions with any native people. Star Trek had the Prime Directive but the Oankali seem more comfortable manipulating us to reach their goals (like not disclosing the consequences to mates staying through second ooloi puberty) than their professed beneficence would have people believe.
I know I’m late to the game but just wanted to say thank you for continuing the book club and I’m still participating!
I found Lillith’s Brood at first fascinating to read but by the end of the 3-book series I was getting bored. In particular, it was predictable to me that Jodahs would succeed at getting what he wanted (proper mates for him), and any true challenge to the dominance of the Oankali was not going to appear.
And by “dominance” I don’t just mean the theft of the planet, but also the fact that to be mated to an Oankali meant than humans could no longer share touch. Like other readers here, I’m surprised that Butler didn’t have any of her human characters resist harder against this, OR that she didn’t have humans develop same-sex sexual relationships in order to seek out touch, which would have seemed to be a possibility left open.
Perhaps, as others have mentioned, a better Butler for me to read would be one homosexual relationships were more directly approached? It irked that she seemed to ignore this, and is even more curious since she may have been lesbian?
Nevertheless, I thought the ideas broached in Lillith’s Brood were quite interesting…I even made notes of some interesting passages – something I have not done since my grad school days. Certainly I see why her writing has been honored in the past, and I think this was a great choice for the book club.
It’s okay if you’re late. I’m glad you got around to commenting!
I think FLEDGLING may be a better pick for you, if you want to see Butler approach homosexuality a little more directly. Just be warned that the start of the book will likely creep you the hell out: it’s supposed to. I think, after all the Butler I’ve read to date, that’s one of the things she’s trying to do with each book, is creep her readers out, make them question standards, that kind of thing.
Thanks, I’ll have to check that one out.
Let me know when you do!
Ack! I almost missed this post because I’m so used to checking only your livejournal.
Anywho, a lot of the discussion questions here are ones that I thought about while reading the book, most notably the question of homosexuality and the resister’s desperation to reproduce.
I figured that Butler stayed away from homosexuality on purpose, though I’m still not really sure why. I do definitely think the book is more about breeding than about sex though. The Oankali’s primary objective is to breed with humans to mix the DNA and the resisters are hell-bent on reproducing to keep the “purebred” humans alive. Even the act of sex itself between human-oakali-ooloi is very “un-sexual” — like someone commented above, they have to lie stiff for most of it. So maybe she did keep it out because homosexuality doesn’t really equate into breeding, or the need to breed.
As for the resisters who want nothing more than to be fertile… it initially bothered me a little when I first read this. I reasoned with myself that it was a product of the society humans had become, but I still think that there are humans who would not want children, regardless, and I think it would’ve been interesting to see what resisters thought of them.
There’s already so much being addressed in this trilogy though, without the speculation on the homosexuality and people who don’t want children… maybe Butler didn’t want to tackle TOO many issues? I think she’s a strong enough writer that she wouldn’t have stretched herself too thin if she had tackled these issues along with the plethora of other ones she brought up, but I’m wondering if she just wanted to maybe keep a tighter focus on certain things.
Also, here’s my original review (though I know you’ve already read it, as you’ve commented on it, but thought I’d share for other people.
): http://intoyourlungs.livejournal.com/12859.html
(P.S. — I’m sorry if my thoughts aren’t very coherent. I’m writing this at 2am and my brain is a little fuzzy. I probably should’ve waited until tomorrow post this, but I wanted to get these ideas down now before I forgot.
)
Your review really helped me formulate my discussion questions, so thank you.
I do think, when you’re dealing with idea SF, there’s a danger of throwing out TOO many things, as they can detract from your point. Finding a way to nod at possible questions without letting those nods confuse matters. And perhaps Butler thought of those questions, realized she had no answers, and chose not to pursue them? Hard to say. I really wish she was still alive. I’d love to pepper her with questions!
You’re quite coherent, don’t worry!